• Strawberry@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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    2 days ago

    It sounds like you’ve given it a lot of thought. May I ask, what are the major barriers? Which are the assumptions you disagree with and the areas of conflict?

    • First, a caveat. I’m not willing to play at debate, nor submit myself to proselytizing. Both bore the hell out of me. Not saying that’s your goal, just establishing a personal boundary.

      The biggest barrier is vegans themselves. There’s a segment of that population that treat it like a religion, and I’m not interested in associating with that specific segment.

      The second one is related though. Veganism is a system of belief. And I have no issue with anyone believing whatever they want. I do, however, object to someone claiming moral superiority because of their beliefs. Again, it means I’m not willing to associate myself with that segment.

      Which leads to the third big one. Veganism requires a degree of faith that it’s right. That’s am assumption I can’t get behind. Again, I’m fine with someone believing whatever they want, living their life by their code. But for me, the baseline assumption that using animals as part of human civilization is a bad thing just doesn’t hold up as a fact. It’s a valid belief, but it isn’t a demonstrable truth. As such, it precludes believing it enough that I couldn’t call myself vegan even if I shared the belief.

      Now, I have overlapping beliefs! As an example, I’m very much against industrial farming. Not because of ethics or morals, but as a matter of practicality. It’s not healthy for animals or humans. I also dislike how animals in industrial farming are treated, but that is a separate issue and it doesn’t apply to all farming of livestock. It is entirely possible to treat animals well while alive, and that’s my personal standard for what I prefer in terms of sourcing food and supplies. That’s one big divide; I’ve never met a vegan, or read any vegan literature that doesn’t object to all forms of farming that involves animals.

      There’s also differences in what is and isn’t humane treatment. While vegans aren’t a monolith, there’s some that will raise immortal hell over keeping backyard chickens, saying it isn’t humane, that it’s exploitation. My line is in how the birds are treated, not that we benefit from the relationship. That goes for goats, cows, whatever. Which brings it back to whether or not I would choose the label of vegan. I don’t share the belief that animals can’t benefit us without it being unethical/immoral. So I just don’t qualify as vegan.

      There’s also little quibbles about the behavior of some vegans, but that’s more of an annoyance than a barrier to claiming the system of belief.

      I can eat vegetarian, and do to some degree. Hell, the older I get, the less I enjoy meat; I end up craving the tastes of well cooked veggies waaay more than I do meat of any kind. Like, right now, I’d punch a kitten for a big ol’ mess of collards. The punching kittens part is a joke because of the topic.

      I can get behind improving the collective health and treatment of livestock. I’m even fine with some of it being outright forbidden at scale; though not at the local level. I’m definitely for improved standards of care when livestock becomes non productive, even with the associated giant increase in prices it would cause.

      Anything else gets nitpicky, so beyond what you asked, and beyond the wholesome community standards. Which, referring back to my initial caveat, is part of why I don’t debate such things in general, and absolutely will not here. It only rarely stays friendly.