You have gotten awfully quiet with your denials of forced labor.

Famine was ended via collectivization and industrialization, well before “market incentives” were introduced

Incorrect, the collectivisation happened first and the massive famines followed, 15-45 million dead in China, 5.7-8.7 million dead in the Soviet Union.

As for centralization, I’m 100% award that market economies trend towards centralization. That’s my point. I’m confused what you think I’m trying to say, here.

What does 100% award mean? I’m also confused. What I am trying to say is that you are extrapolating the tenancy of business to monopolise in free market economies to mean that centralisation in controlled state authoritarian societies will yield the same efficiencies.

As for your adventure in Hong Kong, you’re incredibly defensive of British colonialism

No I am not and I never set foot in Hong Kong during the colonial period.

see anti-colonialism as China going back on promises to colonizers.

No I see it as going back on the promises to the people of Hong Kong. I still have family that lived there as well as family who had to flee to avoid persecution. Before you say it, they are all native Chinese.

Imperialism and colonialism are predicated on extraction,

Extracting resources is not colonialism or imperialism.

You can’t even stay consistent in the same paragraph, how many times in our discussion have you contradicted yourself and fallen flat on your face?

What’s important is the elimination of sovereignty, and the extraction of surplus value. There is no cultural erasure in Xinjiang nor Tibet.

The UN report you provided directly contradicts this, the master of contradiction strikes again! You make this too easy, I’m starting to lose interest in you.

As for your lies about sterilization, they come from Adrian Zenz

I have a range from several reports, not one figure from a chap I have never even heard of.

You get onto me for providing a source that links almost entirely western news sources when available

No, I disputed your Chinese think tank source.

I recommend actually reading the [UN report

I did, you obviously didn’t.

107. Official population figures indicate a sharp decline in birth rates in XUAR from

242 Data from the 2020 Chinese Statistical Yearbook, covering 2019, shows that in the space of two years the birth rate in Xinjiang dropped approximately 48.7 per cent, from 15.88 per thousand in 2017 to 8.14 per thousand in 2019. The average for all of China is 10.48 per thousand.243

108. Uyghur-majority areas represented the bulk of this decline, with two of the largest Uyghur prefectures especially affected by it. In Hotan, which is 96 per cent Uyghur,245 birth rates went from 20.94 per cent in 2016246 to 8.58 per cent per thousand births in 2018.247 Similarly, the birth rate in Kashgar, which is approximately 92.6 per cent Uyghur,248 dropped from 18.19 per cent in 2016249 to 7.94 per cent per thousand births in 2018.250 Even taking into account the overall decline in birth rates in China,251 these figures remain unusual and stark. The same applies to the figures regarding sterilisations and IUD placements in XUAR, with official data indicating an unusually sharp rise in both forms of procedures in the region during 2017 and 2018, in comparison with the rest of China.252 For example, in 2018, sterilisations in XUAR stood at 243 per 100,000 inhabitants, whereas the overall figure for China was a fraction thereof at only 32.1 per 100,000 inhabitants.253

109. Several women interviewed by OHCHR raised allegations of forced birth control, in particular forced IUD placements and possible forced sterilisations with respect to Uyghur and ethnic Kazakh women. Some women spoke of the risk of harsh punishments including “internment” or “imprisonment” for violations of the family planning policy. Among these, OHCHR interviewed some women who said they were forced to have abortions or forced to have IUDs inserted, after having reached the permitted number of children under the family planning policy.259 These first-hand accounts, although limited in number, are considered credible.

Next time read the source before you once again make a fool of yourself. I will not bother with the Chinese report because China says China is innocent does not hold any weight to anyone with a shred of intelligence or integrity. You are being intellectually dishonest for even suggesting this, the USA also disputes the civilian death tolls in Iraq and Afghanistan, do you accept them at their word?

You have done nothing to convince me that you are anything more than a biased imperial boot licker. I have come to the conclusion over the last few years that there are plenty of weak minded people out there that need a strong authoritarian daddy figure to tell them what to do. Xi, Putin, Trump, Netenyahu etc. have made their bases unquestionably obedient and infantilised. You keep on defending the demonstrably indefensible to the point where you just look like a fool. You have zero ability to think critically, trying to feed me biased state propaganda to counter independent UN reports (China even sits as a permanent member of the security council FFS). You are not an honest actor but a biased brainwashed stooge. You imperial apologists are a major part of everything that is wrong with this world, enabling all of the misery in this world from Algeria to Afghanistan, Tibet to Timbuktu. You think that your colonialism is somehow different because it is the colonialism your “team” is perpetrating. I am Irish, I understand colonialism in all its forms, we were one of the original testing grounds. To quote another Irishman, “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing”.

The USSR ended famine in the 1930s, after it collectivized and industrialized agriculture with combine-harvestors. Outside of wartime, there were no more famines. China went through a similar route, once they had industrialized agriculture,

You fail to mention that in both empires the famines ended because they changed the way the system worked introducing market incentives. The Chinese rejected the collectivisation model in favour of the Household Responsibility System. You dismiss the power of direct financial incentives in all of our dealings because it doesn’t fit your theories but it is what works in the real world.

Regarding the tendency for markets to centralize, this is a fact.

The paper you sent that I have a quick read of (I am not and I am sure you have not read the whole thing!) is based on capitalist economies and the tenancy towards monopoly.

"Along these dimensions, our data (outside the U.S.) come from European countries (Germany, Austria, France, Switzerland, Denmark, and the U.K.), Canada, Australia, Singapore, and South Korea. "

You are again ignoring the role of financial incentives in centralisation. Your logic is along the lines of “chickens are animals, chickens lay eggs. Cows are also animals, therefore cows also lay eggs.”

As for your adventures in Hong Kong, you deliberately referred to the colonial era as “cool,” and the part where China regained its sovereignty as bad

So I am a colonist because I though Hong Kong was cool before China reneged on its promises and imposed it’s authoritarian rule over the people. You just put labels on things that you like or don’t like but don’t even understand the meanings the rest of the world understands for these words.

Tibetans and Uyghurs are Chinese. They are not Han, but Han people living in Xinjiang and Tibet are not colonizers.

They are Chinese by force, these regions were annexed under military force. Since you are so slippery with your language, let’s get a few definitions clear so you can understand that China is just as much of an empire as the west you despise for the same reason.

Imperialism: The policy or practice of a nation extending its power and influence over other countries or regions, often through military force, economic dominance, or political control.

Empire: A large political unit or sovereign state made up of several distinct territories or nations ruled by a single supreme authority (such as an emperor, monarch, or dominant government).

Colonization is the act or process by which a nation or foreign power sends people to settle in, take control of, and govern another country, territory, or region

Immigration is not colonialism

You said it was when I did it, get your story straight you absolute hypocrite.

Colonialism is a relationship between exploiter and exploited, and central China is not exploiting periphery China.

I have already discussed the forced labor which I will return to later. China also extracts resources from these regions. Xinjiang produces a massive share of the worlds polysilicon critical for solar panels, beryllium critical for semiconductors. 10% of the worlds aluminium comes from Xinjiang which is exploited by the Chinese automotive industry. Xinjiang also produces the majority of China’s cotton, heavily utilising forced harvesting labor to supply global brands.

Then we get to the cultural and demographic eradication. Systemic birth suppression, under the Law on Promoting ethnic Unity and Progress we get forced sterilisation, forced abortions, mandatory IUD implantation. Birthrates in Hogan and Kashgar have plummeted by 60-84%. Forced separation of children when parents are sent to labor or “re-education camps” these state run camps strip the children of their language, religion and culture. Physical erasure of thousands of mosques, shrines, graveyards and monuments.

In Tibet we have more of the same with state owned enterprises engaging in large scale mining of gold, copper lithium and rare earth minerals. Displacement of nomadic peoples to build these mines. China has built or planned 200 mega scale hydroelectric dams on Tibet’s rivers since 2000. These dams are built primarily to export power to Chinese industrial centers. We also have similar cultural eradication programmes to Xinjiang.

Both states serve as a testing ground for China’s surveillance economy. Over 1400 Chinese tech firms have used Xinjiang’s population to test predictive policing, biometric data collection, facial recognition and gait analysis tracking etc.

Sounds an awful lot like an exploitative imperial colonisation project to me. You are probably too busy licking boots to notice or do any research on the subject.

As for the claims of forced labor, these are false. I already provided evidence of this.

Now on to this one, how dare you insult both of our intelligences by dismissing a report by the Office of the UN High Commissioner on Human Rights with a report from a think tank with opaque funding. Given their editorial slant it is quite obvious that they are funded by China. This is about as much use as saying well China disputes that China is using forced labor against it’s subjugated people’s. Would you believe a report written by the Heritage Foundation or Cato Institute?

China is just as bad as the other imperial nations, you are an imperial apologist. As for Ireland, I am under no illusion what Ireland is currently, we are a small nation and as such are not a rule maker but a rule taker. We do just fine and have managed to rise from poverty to prosperity by playing our own game within the system we have been placed in.

You believe Marxists see private property as a sin

No I don’t, I understand the differences between Marxism and Georgism. Marx did actually call for the “abolition of private property” which includes land. I believe that Henry George had a better understanding of this than Marx who was very timid when it came to confronting the landed class.

As for Engineers needing less training to swap from industry to industry, yes, this is a simplification. However, the fact of the matter is that within branches of engineering, transferability is high.

You are missing my point that as our human knowledge increases, professions are becoming more and more specialised, not less. You are also discounting the experience these professionals gain from years of practice, there is no shortcut to gaining experience, this takes time and practice. Engineering is but one example, brain surgeons do not transfer to being heart or orthopedic surgeons or oncologists. These are highly specialised fields that take decades to gain proficiency .

Smithing, textiles and carpentry are simpler fields to retrain in sure but proficiency and mastery in those fields take years. You have also not answered how in this advanced stage of communism you are going to get all of the experienced doctors to stay in the country when their skills can earn them a better quality of life in a market based economy?

The only answer to this is of course authoritarianism. Close the borders and force these citizens to work. Authoritarianism is the glue that holds China together.

The fact that markets centralize, and the fact that planned economy is more efficient with centralized production than with non-centralized production, is not a “lie.” It’s basic economics.

How did that work out for China and the Soviet Union when it came to farming in the 1950s? Millions of avoidable deaths from starvation. You live in theory and are in dispute with reality. Economics is not a science of universal truths but a study of complex systems that you don’t understand and over simplify in accordance with your gospel.

As for Han populations increasing, this isn’t colonialism.

Yet me living in Hong Kong somehow is? Explain how what I did was colonialism but what the Chinese migrants are doing is not?

Connolly was anti-imperialist to the core, correct, which is why you do him a disgrace by labeling every socialist government you don’t like as colonial or neocolonial.

Wonder how he would feel about the forced labor in these annexed territories? You are awfully quiet on that now after demanding sources in your last comment. You are still claiming this is somehow not the theft of their labor. You are just a massive hypocrite or delusional. How on earth was China taking Tibet by force in 1950 not colonialism? The only government I am talking about here is China, I never called any other government colonial or neocolonial, just the one I am talking about that deserves it.

You keep making the moralist argument that private property is a sin.

Where did I make that argument? I see no sin in private property ownership.

However, the idea that it takes a tremendous amount of time to train an experienced engineer in one field on another field is also incorrect

Wild statement, you are going to need to back that up. You are discounting years of specialist training just to qualify and then the years of experience required to actually become useful in the field. You are simplifying something you don’t understand to fit your argument. Are you aware of the Dunning-Kruger effect, this is the perfect example of that. The same goes for my own field of dentistry or the field of medicine which I also have knowledge of the time it takes to train or even the field of legal specialisation.

Do better, be serious.

I can’t believe you ended your uninformed rant with this, you are too funny dude :)

You keep pretending Marxism is about dogmatically paying everyone equally, and I have explained time and time again that you are confusing late-stage communism with early-stage socialism

I’m not confusing anything, I understand perfectly well that China is not a communist country and has terrible wealth inequality that is increasing by the year. The transition to full communism is a lie sold to the workers so the factory owners can continue to exploit the workers surplus labor.

As for advancements since Marx, I agree! Lenin, Walter Rodney, Cheng Enfu, and many other economists have carried his work forward. You haven’t given any examples,

I could list off a few economists too but I fail to see the point.

just continued to defend your own colonial adventures in Hong Kong while defending the European safety nets achieved by pilfering the surplus value of the global south.

You have still failed to explain how my adventures were colonial. You have also skipped over the part where I discussed the increasing migrant Han Chinese populations in the annexed capitals of Xinjiang and Tibet and how that is not colonialism. Your own arguments are not even consistent.

The bits on “forced labor” are entirely unsourced on your part.

https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2026/01/un-experts-alarmed-reports-forced-labour-uyghur-tibetan-and-other-minorities

Here you go buddy, I can find hundreds more if needed.

Tibet was a feudal slave society before integration into the PRC, where slavery was abolished

I come from Ireland and have heard plenty of colonial justifications like this from you imperialists. You think you civilised the savages do you? Nobody asked you to. Your colonial excuses are as ridiculous as Topographica Hibernica from 800 years ago, I’ve heard them all before.

You have no clue what you’re talking about here, and equating Tibet and Xinjiang with Ireland is horrendously insulting to Irish anti-imperialists like James Connolly.

Don’t you be trying to warp my history to suit you imperial agenda and keep James Connollys name out of your mouth while you do it. He knew exactly what colonialism was and would recognise and empathise with the struggles of the Uyghur and Tibetan people. Connolly was anti imperialist to the core and has written extensively on the subject. You are tying yourself into knots trying to deny the obvious truth that China is an imperial nation.

China is absolutely Marxist

They are selectively Marxist not absolutely.

purely because they distribute the spoils pilfered from the global south to their labor aristocracy, is laughable.

We haven’t even gotten into China’s neo colonialism and debt trap diplomacy but I’m sure that you will deny that too. You’re a robot programmed to believe “Western imperialism bad, China imperialism good and justified.” I am from neither a western or eastern imperial state and I see through all of you. You are just as bad as them but you can’t even see it from inside the machine.

I didn’t ask for coaching buddy, certainly not from the likes of you anyway. I have the nuts to question your intelligence because you keep making a fool of yourself.

996" “Xinjiang” “workers don’t share interests” yeah buddy you’re a sinophobic moron.

I have put several points to you but your only response to these points are ad hominem attacks because you have no responses. Just admit you’re in over your head.

I deal with people like you virtually every day of the week.

If this was true I would have thought you’d have better answers than this rubbish. If you are dealing with people like this every day maybe find something better to do with your time. I regularly get in discussions with your type also and it always ends up this way, with you spluttering and raging, unable to answer my points and resorting to ad hominem attacks because beyond a certain point it’s all you have. Sit down and take your “L” little dude, there’s a good boy!

. It is impossible to implement “from each according to their abilities, to each according to their needs” tomorrow, because agricultural labor and medical labor are too distinct.

Exactly my argument, the destination is fantasy land, there is no predicted timeframe on a future where this state is achieved so until then exploit the workers because we have supposedly have good intentions?

They all have their own characteristics, but the specialization of labor is eroding. This is also true across fields like engineering, where tools like CAD are industry standards

5 centuries ago, textile work, carpentry, smithing, and logistics all required dramatically different skillsets

This is all absolute BS, specialisation of labour is increasing across all fields as these fields increase in complexity. Your example of engineering displays a hilarious lack of knowledge of the field, just because they all use computer aided design specialisation is eroding? Ridiculous statement, I don’t even know where to begin but I will try and keep it simple for you. 100 years ago people studied engineering, today there are 6 main types, chemical, biomedical, civil, mechanical, electrical and materials engineering each of these main groups has dozens of sub specialities contained within. The same is true of medicine, science and just about every single other degree level course. You are displaying a profound lack of understanding here, as time goes on and out knowledge expands this specialisation will only increase, your argument here is null and void.

Do better, be serious.

Right back at you big guy.

Communist success has never existed because there has never been a true communist state. No country has even gotten past the half way stage. Do you not even understand the communism you claim to preach? Tell me all about some of the “communist success”, come on then buddy!

You open by stating that Marxism has plenty of holes, but you can’t seem to think of a single one to bring up

Yes I did, you attempt to answer one of them, poorly, in your next paragraph and don’t even acknowledge the one about why anyone would clean the sewers if they had no financial need or motivation to. The rest of the paragraph is trying to paint me somehow and without explanation as a coloniser. This is all the more ridiculous when put beside your denials of China’s own actual colonialism.

The biggest issue you bring up here is that you think the age where people can be split into surgeons and industrial laborers and the age where people will be paid according to need are the same

No I don’t, you are the one jumping around through the phases of communism. I am separating them into the now horribly unequal current China and the fantasy land of the future. I am arguing that the fantasy future is unworkable in reality and sold as an opiate to the masses because it keeps the workers from revolting.

you are referring to an era where labor is fully interchangeable, both because of polytechnical education and tools making every job as easy as possible

How far away are we from a time where brain surgery is interchangable and as easy as cleaning a toilet? If this was actually implemented the doctor’s would all just leave the country and go where their labor gets the compensation it deserves. Humans will always have differing levels of competence and why should the most competent subsidise the least or the lazy? Really though, how will you stop these people leaving the state?

but you never once elaborate on how economics has advanced since Marx.

There has been 150 years since Marx passed, do you really feel as though economics has not advanced in this time as had every other scientific discipline. There are entire university degrees covering all of these advancements. If communism is so great, how come no country has even gotten close to a full communist system? It has been almost 200 years since the publication of “The Communist Manifesto”.

The rest of your comment is a bunch of unsourced claims that came to you in a dream. [Average working hours in China are typically around 47 hours per week

Working hours in China increased from 48.2 hours per week in August 2026 to 48.3 in September 2026. This was also in the link you sent me, it looks as though the average working hours is increasing in China if you compare these current figures with your 9 year average figure of 47 hours.

https://tradingeconomics.com/china/average-weekly-hours

This is still a long average working week compared to the EU average of 35.9 hours per week. This is also just the average and does not include the massive and increasing amount of gig workers in China. The 996 culture was only outlawed in 2021 and still persists off the books. You’re a great man for using government headline figures and ignoring the lived reality.

https://www.reuters.com/sustainability/society-equity/china-tries-call-time-its-996-culture-long-hours--ecmii-2025-09-01/

You also paint Xinjiang and Tibet as colonialism, without proving a colonial relationship

You appear to be suffering from a case of delusional selective colonialism. Do you actually need a history lesson here? China invaded Tibet in October 1950, defeating the much smaller Tibetan army and forced the signing of the 17 point agreement under duress in May of 1951 formally annexing Tibet into China. Tibet had an uprising in 1959 with a strong crackdown by the Chinese resulting in somewhere between 15,000-85,000 deaths depending on the source. Since then China has suppressed the population and their culture and language, operated forced labor (is it not called surplus value when they are not paying them?) and destroyed thousand of Buddhist monasteries. This entire country was annexed for geopolitical reasons, do I need to explain these to you too?

Xinjiang was also annexed around the same time and the local muslim Uyghur population have been forced into “re-education centres” with an unknown prison population likely 1 to 1.5 million detained since 2017. Does the forced labor in these prisons not count as surplus value stoled either? How is this any better than any other countries colonisation?

In both of these countries capitals the Han Chinese population is increasing rapidly through migration. You accuse me of being a coloniser for living in Hong Kong for a few years. I didn’t annex the place though did I? Your hypocrisy is ridiculous, you call me desperate and then go and make a fool of yourself, this is too easy buddy, you make yourself look stupid and don’t even realise it.

in fact, many areas see more spending from the central government to uplift them).

We also got the lie in Ireland about how much England gave us in infrastructure and development while they raped our country. You imperial types are all the same.

you cannot even comprehend basic facts about China and Marxism.

My whole point is that China is not Marxist, not even close. You are a religious fanatics who clings to the fantasy that it will be someday with nothing more than “trust me bro” to back it up. There are many countries around the world, mostly in the EU, that are far more socialist and equal in terms of wealth distribution and do not require an authoritarian state to accomplish this. You then launch into a pointless prediction, your dreams have nothing of value to add to this conversation, lets stick to reality please. Dreams are all you have because reality paints a far bleaker picture.

Oh, you again. I am not deliberately refusing to understand these basic points, I am pointing out that these basic points, while nice in theory are unworkable in reality. You are making the same mistake that has plagued economics since its inception, trying and failing miserably to make economics more like the hard sciences by incorporating the constant of the “rational man”. There is no such thing as this, especially when you are dealing with large numbers of people, history has proved time and again that this concept is ridiculous and that crowds are irrational.

You are treating the doctor, who is close to the top of society in terms of living standards the same as the factory worker near the bottom. You are reducing them both to the same constant because it fits your narrative. You argue that both are the same because their surplus labor is stolen yet the factory worker can’t afford a house and the doctor goes home to their luxury apartment to sleep on silk sheets. At least in this scenario, the doctor is relatively well compensated for his skilled labor, in a full communist society the doctor’s labor is devalued to the point where it is equal to that of the factory worker.

You keep repeating the nonsense idea that communism is when everyone gets paid the same amount,

I do not keep on repeating this, I fully understand the concept of a communist society in its most evolved form going beyond the need for money. It is essentially the same thing as everyone being paid the same amount because there is no additional compensation for the highly skilled brain surgeon over the street cleaner. “From each according to their ability, to each according to their needs”. If this came into place tomorrow I guarantee you that there would be no doctors or dentists left in the country because their skills are in high demand worldwide. There is no point at which their labor is interchangable, the farmer in the field can’t just scrub in for surgery after all the doctors leave. In all of our interactions you have never answers this point.

Don’t worry buddy, I have enough education to see through the bullshit of the Chinese system. You’re outright dismissal of my points as “silly” or “sinophobia” without any real counterpoints however makes me question your intelligence.

China has billionaires and private equity under state capitalism, a perfectly normal component of any state transitioning out of capitalism.

This is your excuse for billionaires, easy to say this when you are making it up as you go along. How can you claim something is “perfectly normal” when it has not been done before? Wealth inequality in China is increasing every year, doesn’t sound like the transition to communism is going very well.

The bourgeoisie in China have no political sway,

You say so little in your reply and what you did say is easily disprovable. Less than 1/3 of the CCP is made up of workers and farmers with the majority over 2/3 made up of well educated and well paid educated elites and professionals. Before you say they are all workers, they do not share the same interests. A doctor in Beijing earns $150,000 a year and lives very comfortably on this salary. A factory worker struggles on an annual salary of about $7000. The majority of the CCP has a vested interest in the status quo and any transition to communism would require them to vote against their own self interest. All the while more and more billionaires gain more and more power and control in the country that is rife with corruption to begin with. China has similar levels of corruption as the Ivory Coast or Ghana.

You then claim I made up the terrible working conditions in China because I am “weak”? Huh? What kind of argument is that? China is the country of the 996 work week, that still goes on despite weak crackdowns. The country of the Foxconn suicides, the Hukou system creating an underclass of employees and forced labor of the Uyghurs in Xinjiang.

I could go on all day but there is no convincing you because you believe what you want to believe. Facts don’t get in the way of your feelings, you live in the land of delusion and fantasy. You give China a free pass because the ruling party has “communist” in its name. Next you will tell me the Democratic Republic of Korea is a vibrant democracy. The truth is China has just figured out a way to exploit the surplus labor of it’s workers to fuel its export machine. They are never actually going to transition to full communism, this is the lie they tell the workers while the rich in China live well. “Keep working there little guys and at some unknown point in the future we will reach the promised land, I swear!” As I said earlier, it’s just slavery with extra steps. You say I am the “silly” one.

Love how you tankies shout about the imperial west while casually ignoring China’s own imperial nature.

“Communist” China, the country with the fastest growing population of billionaires and rapidly growing wealth inequality while the proletariat toil away in terrible working conditions. Slavery with extra steps.

Even your memes are about 4 years out of date, cringe…

blah blah blah blah

The response of a fool when he has no answer to give, I’ll take my victory lap. .

A coup is a coup is a coup is a coup.

Only true when one doesn’t understand what a coup actually is.

The West necessitate a strongman leader, elected or not

This is the scary story your strongman leader tells you, only strong daddy Putin can protect you from the evil west. He makes you fear the western boogy man who wants to steal your resources, but don’t be afraid because daddy Putin is strong. While you cucks are cowering at the thought of your precious resources being taken by the west, Putin and his mafia are robbing Russia’s resource wealth blind buying super yachts and London mansions. Everything is the fault of the west, don’t look at your kleptocratic leader too closely.

The Russian deal offered to Yanukovic was not objectively better than what the EU was offering, some short term benefits were not better for Ukraine than the EU deal in the long term. The Ukrainian people wanted out of the Russian sphere and the dead end lack of development that offered. Ukraine looked at the success of Poland in the EU and decided that is the future they wanted. They wanted that future so badly they are willing to fight and die to earn their divorce from Russia and Russia can’t handle this further loss of standing.

And if a broken campaign promise makes justification for the overthrow of an elected leader, then every elected leader in America should be run out of

You use America and it’s simulation of democracy as your example because you know that governments collapse and get thrown out all of the time in Europe then the ruling parties break election promises and lose their mandate. We don’t get to the point of popular uprisings because when governments realise they have lost the support of the people they stand down and call early elections for the peaceful transfer of power. Yanukovic, under his puppet masters instructions, tried to cling to power despite losing the support of the people and the popular uprising followed.

You and I have had discussions before regarding the differences between a popular uprising and a coup. Despite being corrected and educated on the difference, you carry on calling it a coup. You must not be allowed to deviate from your script.

Get out of here talking about democracy bootlicker. Russia has had the same dictator in power for 26 years now and arrests citizens that hold up blank sheets of paper. Your warped Russian “democracy” is not the same as ours. If we don’t like our leaders we will protest and have new elections, the Russian puppet Yanukovic was forced out when he betrayed his own election promises to the people, funny how that only bothers you when it’s Zelensky. You meek Russian cucks wouldn’t understand this, you just prefer to bend over and take it from a bald stump of a man.

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I never claimed to be an authority on Marxism, although I am flattered you think I am one. Marxism is an outdated economic philosophy that sounds lovely but has more plot holes than a Fast and Furious movie. I know enough about it to be sure that it would not work due to its ridiculous assumptions about society and human nature. Then there is you who holds Marxism up as a universal truth right up there with the Laws of Thermodynamics or the Theory of Relativity.

I was never a “coloniser” of Hong Kong, just an immigrant living in what was a fantastic international city with my wife whose parents are from there, along with her family that still live there. What an idiotic attempt to disparage me and then try and use that to disparage my own views on socialism as an Irish person.

The critical importance of them being the same class is that they both share a collective interest as a class, that interest being collectivization of production and distribution

This is another one of your fallacies, this is where theory and reality clash and you can’t handle it. The doctor on $150,000+ is not nearly as incentivised as the farmer/worker on $5000. The doctor is at the top end of society and would like to stay that way. If communism was fully implemented tomorrow the next day you will quickly find all the doctors have emigrated unless you build a wall to keep them in. We all know the Chinese government is not above targeting the families of dissident emigrants, what a great system of government, imagine how much worse this will have to get?

This does not mean variance within a class is sufficient to be a class of themselves.

In your flawed opinion…

The types of workers that most occupy the CPC do tend to be more educated, and therefore make more money, it’s true, but this is not a bad thing

You sound an awful lot like a capitalist here!

The working poor are not "fed some bullshit

Yes they are, as the factory owners steal their surplus labor.

Who cares if some few capitalists get wealthier if the whole of society prospers?

Again, spoken like a true capitalist!

Your arguments about “human nature” are, frankly, childish and absurd. Again, you make a mockery of yourself, thinking Marx never accounted for incentives.

If my arguments are childish and absurd they should be easy to argue against. You don’t even try, resorting to ad hominem attacks, that’s low buddy. Marx did account for incentives, badly, especially in light of everything we have learned in the last 150 years regarding human psychology.

You discredit the “comical idea of equal pay” instead of realising that this is a simplified explanation of the end stage of communism. Once the productive forces are so advanced that pay is no longer required we are at a situation where regardless of your job you get the same as everyone else. As someone who worked hard to get a well paid job, I would be out of my country if they tried pull that bullshit on me. This is the competitive nature of humans, why does some lazy asshole deserve the same as me when I work my hole off?

is a hypothesis of an era where production and distribution is so advanced that anyone, regardless of background, is sufficiently trained to perform any act of labor in society and thus all labor be interchangeable.

So when all the brain surgeons leave, Larry the farmer out in the field can interchangeably perform the brain surgery. Do you even read what you are writing? The plot holes are everywhere. Modern society is so much more specialised now than in the days of Marx.

You then continue to embarrass yourself by claiming China has been an imperial power for its entire history, ignoring the century of humiliation when it was a colony

Again your lack of historical knowledge is showing, China was never fully colonised by the Europeans during the century of humiliation. The Japanese did colonise parts of China for a few years last century. This also does not invalidate the fact that China was an imperial power. Losing a war does not erase the past or future, China has been blobbing out across the map since it began in the heartland. Xinjiang and Tibet are two of China’s more recent colonial expansions where they are actively committing cultural genocide and locking up the local Uyghur population in “re-education” centres. As you point fingers at western colonialism, pay attention to the 3 fingers pointing back at yourself you hypocrite. “Annexing territory is not imperialism” sure buddy, the Chinese people just needed lebensraum right?

You occupy a stance that despices Marxism and Marxists

I do not despise Marxism, as I said before it is a noble idea and a good starting point, but absolutely unworkable in real life. I do despise fanatical modern Marxists in a similar way to religious fanatics because it takes over their whole world view and ego. When the plot holes are pointed out they tend to defend the indefensible because their whole world will crash down if they can no longer be a Marxist.

Regarding trade unions, the All China Federation of Trade Unions is extremely effective at supporting worker rights

Which is why Chinese workers work in such shitty conditions with long hours and no work life balance? It is because the ruling party can accept no challenge to their absolute authoritarian control.

Discussion of June 4th is not censored,

the ones that are persecuted are the ones that uplift the color revolution as a good thing

You have just contradicted yourself. Ceremonies rembering those that died in the heavy handed crackdown are a threat to the government.

It isn’t a lengthy period of sacrifice for an eventual 180 pivot to communism, it’s a gradual process of constant improvement that results in higher degrees of socialization:

This is the lie that is sold to placate the poor working class. Your great grandchildrens lives will be better if you just sacrifice for the good of the country. Wealth inequality in China has only been increasing rapidly in the last 30 years, this doesn’t sound like constant improvement to me? You say “workers wages have skyrocketed” this is true with the caveat that when you start from such a low starting point the initial gains are easy and look impressive in percentage terms, let’s see what happens now that the Chinese economy is slowing down and aging rapidly with increased global protectionism. My bet is the current trend in China of the wealthy getting wealthier will continue. I am not going to read your religious pamphlet and do not expect to convince you either because you have drank the kool aid of fundamentalism.