Queer pride comes from a place of resilience in hate—that we keep on being, existing, thriving, even though there’s legislation and bad faith arguments and assholes and propaganda that undermines and demeans us.
Irish is literally the first example Carlin lists and we lived with Britain spending 800 years trying to make us stop being Irish. Still can’t work with Brits without hearing casual slurs and stereotypes, but if Carlin had one blind spot it was his own privilege. A reminder he was human after all.
That makes sense, but I do have follow-on questions. Genuinely asking, not trying to be antagonistic.
Would you then say that gay pride is ridiculous in a nation that doesn’t have issues with hating gay people? Like, in a well run country where homophobia/transphobia is marginalized out, should gay pride be viewed the same as having Irish pride?
The argument against that in my mind would be that it’s honoring the work of the people who came before who had to deal with historical bigotry. But I feel like the counter to that would be the Irish, in that they also had to deal with systematic bigotry in this country. We’re not so far gone from “No Irish Need Apply,” and people having to change their names to hide their Irish ancestry to find jobs.
A nation will always have issues with homophobia, because even if it’s not an enshrined position, it’s something that its constituent citizens can sometimes believe in.
I live in Portland, Oregon, and I deal with transphobia all the damn time. And yet I’m explicitly protected by the law, which doesn’t mean all that much at the end of the day.
But there is no un-hated group. Heck, there’s still a not insignificant portion of the population who hate the Irish/Catholics still. There is no group that isn’t hated by someone.
Hell, there are a not insignificant number of people who hate white people. Does that make it okay for them to be “proud of being white” just because some people hate them for it?
I don’t disagree that there will always be people who hate gay people. But I do think there are plenty of countries though where the percentage of the population that do is low. At least as low as those who hate whites/Catholics/etc.
Queer pride comes from a place of resilience in hate—that we keep on being, existing, thriving, even though there’s legislation and bad faith arguments and assholes and propaganda that undermines and demeans us.
Same thing could be said about a lot of nationalities, especially nations without a state, or captive under a hostile or indifferent one.
Palestinian pride is a real thing, and I hope they endure.
Irish is literally the first example Carlin lists and we lived with Britain spending 800 years trying to make us stop being Irish. Still can’t work with Brits without hearing casual slurs and stereotypes, but if Carlin had one blind spot it was his own privilege. A reminder he was human after all.
That makes sense, but I do have follow-on questions. Genuinely asking, not trying to be antagonistic.
Would you then say that gay pride is ridiculous in a nation that doesn’t have issues with hating gay people? Like, in a well run country where homophobia/transphobia is marginalized out, should gay pride be viewed the same as having Irish pride?
The argument against that in my mind would be that it’s honoring the work of the people who came before who had to deal with historical bigotry. But I feel like the counter to that would be the Irish, in that they also had to deal with systematic bigotry in this country. We’re not so far gone from “No Irish Need Apply,” and people having to change their names to hide their Irish ancestry to find jobs.
A nation will always have issues with homophobia, because even if it’s not an enshrined position, it’s something that its constituent citizens can sometimes believe in.
I live in Portland, Oregon, and I deal with transphobia all the damn time. And yet I’m explicitly protected by the law, which doesn’t mean all that much at the end of the day.
Hence, trans pride.
But there is no un-hated group. Heck, there’s still a not insignificant portion of the population who hate the Irish/Catholics still. There is no group that isn’t hated by someone.
Hell, there are a not insignificant number of people who hate white people. Does that make it okay for them to be “proud of being white” just because some people hate them for it?
I don’t disagree that there will always be people who hate gay people. But I do think there are plenty of countries though where the percentage of the population that do is low. At least as low as those who hate whites/Catholics/etc.