- cross-posted to:
- world@lemmy.world
- hackernews@lemmy.bestiver.se
- cross-posted to:
- world@lemmy.world
- hackernews@lemmy.bestiver.se
Why the fuck does a refrigerator need to be on a network?
Controls have to be put somewhere, and networked interfaces mean fewer physical controls that may be difficult to access, tampered with or fail. Having a standard control protocol means interfaces can be changed and improved without modifying the hardware. They’re not a bad thing.
However, having networked controls exposed on anything other than private, air-gapped, wired-only LANs seems rather foolish, to me.
Speculation to your question, for monitoring and control.
For monitoring, log temperatures and send error message if it gets too high. Data could be used if any legal question come up about food spoilage.
For control, I’m guessing there’s times you want to shut it off or enable/disable defrost. Easier to do that at a computer than have controls that are either a pain inthe ass to get to, or too easy for some moron to mess with.
That being said, it should be on a local network and have no access to the internet. However a chain store would probably want the data sent to HQ, so the computer would need to be on the network.
2010s - We made everything smart, networked, and IOT!
2015-2025 - We need you to put your personal details into everything, everywhere, all the time!
2026-??? - We invented a machine that can hack everything on earth and steal all data for nefarious purposes.
Wouldn’t be surprised if we learned in a few months that this was done by state sponsored hackers.
Idiot design and engineering for the sake of cheep managers. Same reason they are taking all the air gaps out of critical infrastructure. Instead of having Internet connected monitoring separate from the controls like a normal person, they hook controllers to the Internet too, so they don’t have to pay a technician to come in.
For added stupidity, the department at my job which has monitors and controls online just caused a number of techs who only do monitor and control to retire by making them return to work in office.
But you can whittle down your labor costs to a single untrained guy monitoring by notifications in the closet they converted to the IT room.
Being “smart” and connected to the internet is about to devalue a lot of manufactured goods that have no business being either one of the those things.
One can only hope
That was a rather cold move.
The executives that allowed the system to be built this way belong in prison for the value of the destroyed food. An engineer armload certainly told them this system needed better design and security and was told no by some cheap ass trying to preserve their executive bonus.
Nothing will ever change until these monsters have personal consequences.
Having fridges connected to the internet and getting them Hijacked is stupidity, not a cyberattack.
This is exactly what happened to the US Army about a month ago.
Why the fuck are all of your fridges controllable from the Internet? We didn’t have to build such a stupid, stupid society.
Because shops don’t want to run hardware on site, so they outsource the hosting of management and monitoring to the cheapest contractor. Unsurprisingly they don’t spend on security.
Because this way the bill of materials, design work, and labor cost are all higher; and that way the company can earn more money!
Capitalism is so far detached from what capitalists pretend it’s like. Wealth distribution is so uneven in the U.S. that there’s extremely little incentive to lower costs, even if the business is worse off because of it.
Thanks a lot jackasses
Attacking a countries food supply and food reserves really seems like a act of war.
The term “hackers” really downplays the severity of these kinds of cyber attacks IMO. It makes it kind of sound like a teenager in a basement somewhere, as opposed to some foreign state cyber warfare group or something along those lines.
Also it’s madness that systems like these are connected directly to the internet without read-only permissions implemented. Controls should only be accessible locally on some kind of airgap or local seperate VLAN.
The main plot of Ghost in the Shell 3. sigh
Given the simplicity of this attack and complete disregard for security by the vendor, it is likely to just be a teenager in a basement somewhere
Please stop with the acts of war or terrorism BS. The article also mentions “in-store pricing powered by electronic shelf labels” so lets not ignore this is about multi-billion companies trying to suck every penny out of our pocket. If these companies design and manufacture and buy stupid hardware that is susceptible to such hacking, they really deserve it. I mean they really do.
Second, this is a good thing. Systems will be hardened now. You think there would be any other fucking way they would upgrade their security unless something like this happens? Beatings will continue until security improves. This is why even chaotic hackers that cause damage and inconvenience are ultimately a positive force on our IT infrastructure. Think of it as an ecosystem and evolutionary pressure. Free marketplace of security models.
The disconnect between how systems “should” be and how they actually are is disappointingly enormous.
Retailers are surprisingly enough just like consumers and want things to “just work” without caring about security.
And so they get Internet-connected fridges, and it’s all fine, until the very moment it isn’t.
I hope this is a learning experience and they beef-up their systems.
I hope this is a learning experience and they beef-up their systems
I hope this is a learning experience and they realize that commercial refrigerators don’t need to have internet access.
And it’s not just retailers. I’ve seen this just about everywhere, especially in toxic workplaces.
Also it’s madness that systems like these are connected directly to the internet without read-only permissions implemented.
Water systems in the US are, too. And they have been hacked.
I’m sure the admins managing this infra did implement strict permissions… Separate vlans are safe until you find a vulnerability in the switch OS, or find a way to access the admins account.
Just wait until some cars get hacked to accelerate as fast as possible because we just had to have telemetry in them for surveillance and profit.
Search YouTube for “Michael Hastings Accident”.
I was going to say, done and done.
Hackers using AI can absolutely hack into a Tesla and make it do anything they want. I’m surprised they haven’t to the point where it’s major news.
Hacks and attacks like this will explode with AI.
AI is absolutely incredible at finding vectors for arbitrary code execution. It can jump from layer to layer to layer to find an exploit. I want all of my appliances from now on to be dumb and not connected to the internet.
I like physical media too.
I can understand a lightweight IoT network to monitor temperatures and get alarms automatically. But why on earth would it allow controlling the fridge remotely?
It’s fucking stupid, you don’t use the manufacturer’s systems for that, or you’ll need one system for the fridges, one for the ovens, one for the lighting… You’re supposed to connect them all to YOUR control system, over isolated VLAN/LANs and then secure your system only.
Control systems will have to be air gapped going forward. This IOT fetish that the MBAs had is going to come back and bite a bunch of products in the ass.
Control systems need to be gated behind a properly secured SCADA server, then you can monitor whatever you want by connecting to your company’s VPN.
Perhaps that’s how the fridge company keeps you paying for the service. Allowing you to set temps, time defrost is all operational. You can do power saving and make sure that defrosts only happen during the store’s downtime. You could also isolate a screwed up unit, have the store unstock it and shut it down until maintenance can come out to repair it.
You need that if you want to let managers remotely control settings via mobile apps.
Next time, the manufacturer will learn to use a local-only protocol like Matter.
Probably fof some remote control BS. My wife was really keen on being able to set up þe slow cooker and turn it on remotely while she was at work. I don’t understand þe appeal, but I’ve stopped trying to guess at why stuff appeals to people.
Also, when I bought our last dishwasher it came wiþ some features I only got because þe model got good reviews and I couldn’t get a version wiþout þem. One of þe ones I þought would be useless was an interior light þat illuminates it when þe door is opened. A year in, it was my favorite feature, and next dishwasher I buy is going to have it too. But when I was shopping, I could have cared less. Turns out, I’m really bad at predicting what features I’m going to like.
oh thank god. My brain has finally started automatically turning the symbol into ‘th’. That took forever.
Nope, not for me. Still hurting my eyeballs and brain.
I just skip the rest of the post as soon as I hit one.
Somebody learns the term “single point of failure” now…
I wonder how much money was saved by having someone manage the freezer section, or how much money was earned by not having an empty fridge.
The management quarterly meeting PowerPoint presentation says x3 more yachts for us.








