In 8 hours it uses 20% of the battery. When Windows or Mac are put to sleep, the damn things can sleep for a week! This is the case with Linux on multiple laptops.
Is there some kind of manipulation going by ring -1 that detects Linux is running? Is Linux not respecting some procedure and kissing a step?
It’s mostly a mix of newer laptops not supporting suspend to RAM (only suspend to idle), and faulty hardware requiring proprietary hacks to actually go idle.
If only going to sleep was simple. There’s a bunch of different sleep states. S3 is ram and S4 is hibernate.
Check your supported sleep states. At the command line type cat /sys/power/state
https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/v5.4/admin-guide/pm/sleep-states.html
It also doesn’t help that ACPI is a badly-designed mess of a standard. I remember that in the 2010s one of Apple’s selling points was that their laptops had sleep and hibernation that worked every time. Heck, MacOS X could even decide intelligently when to do which. This mostly worked because they fully controlled the hardware, firmware, and software. Other laptop manufacturers could just take their best stab at implementing ACPI power states and hope their implementation matched Microsoft’s.
Microsoft tried to solve the mess by introducing the S0ix ACPI state (aka “Modern Standby”), which was defined in a way that could actually be implemented without too much guesswork. Unfortunately, this was during the Windows 8 era when Microsoft decided that laptops should be more like smartphones so S0ix is much closer to turning your screen off on a phone than to actual standby.
The system randomly waking up and deciding to do work is an explicitly intended feature because what if you get a Teams message while your laptop is in your bag? Sure, you might say that you’d either have Teams on your phone or wouldn’t immediately care but that kind of thinking won’t get you anywhere within Microsoft. Also, Windows actually has very little restraint about what it does when it wakes up so it might decide to install a heavy update or an application might decide it’s important enough to do work right now. While the laptop is in your bag. Cue you wondering if the laptop turned off because the battery’s empty or because it overheated.
And to make things worse Microsoft specified that in order to be allowed to use Modern Standby, the device must not offer S3 (sleep/suspend-to-ram). Some manufacturers still allow you to enable S3 but it’s a legacy feature that’s even less well supported than before.
The system randomly waking up and deciding to do work
My work macbook did this by default as well, among other dumb things like leaving bluetooth enabled on sleep so my headphones would constantly connect to the laptop when on the train trying to listen to music.
Thankfully the waking up thing is just a setting, but by default, imho, mac os’s sleep is also garbage.
Windows doesn’t sleep. Ever. Sleep is now just a nickname for Modern Standby, which is just running in low power mode doing a whole bunch of shit. The amount of times I come back to my laptop and it has gotten stuck at a reboot is just embarrassing. I dual-boot and have Grub, so whenever Windows tries to reboot itself it gets stuck.
People have gotten their laptops damaged because they thought they were sleeping and put them in a bag, when Windows decides to try to update itself while the fans are blocked inside the bad. Bam, heat damage.
Shouldn’t modern laptops have temperature sensors and just deal with it in some way? I had this happen to me a few times with my old Thinkpad from 12 years ago. Threw it into the backpack in a rush and an hour later I’d pull it out, hot and doing something I didn’t want it to do… But it never suffered any kind of damage from that. Was just very annoying.
You can’t interrupt Windows Update either. So, rock meets hard place?
Does it? I have a really old sony vaio that last more than a week suspended.
From what I heard, the sleep mode on the steam deck is just the default linux sleep mode. It works almost flawlessly.
I don’t think it’s quite true though because I can leave it in sleep mode for days and it just fires back up where it left off with almost no noticeable battery drain. If I put my desktop pc to sleep (bazzite) it acts like a stroke victim. IF it manages to wake up. Usually it just has to be restarted so I don’t waste my time and just shut it down now.
Your system goes to sleep and wakes up? My system goes to sleep and then crashes. We are not the same
Your system and me have a lot in common (⌐■_■)
On my Linux computer I just close the laptop’s lid and it goes to sleep, consuming almost no battery power. I can open it hours later and have basically the same amount of battery left as before.
But some laptop manufacturers have proprietary systems in place for the sleep mode that are not supported in Linux because it would be a gargantuan effort when the laptop manufacturer refuses to coöperate.
I once did a deep dive on sleep mode for some problem a friend was having. I’m now convinced it might be the worst thing I’ve ever seen in modern computing. It’s globally horrendous, poorly implemented, and causes random problems in unfathomable places. It’s amazing it ever works at all.
It makes what Valve was able to do with the Steam Deck even more impressive imo. You can suspend mid game, like a Nintendo Switch, and it just works.
Always wondered this. My steam deck dies in a day if put to sleep or hibernate.
if the battery dies during hibernate, it’s not hibernating
incidentally I have been using linux for years and have never had a working hibernation setup. I’m convinced it’s a hoax at this point
It generally works fine with my desktop, though depending on the alignment of the planets it sometimes just… forgets it was hibernated? and boots like normal…
Works great with HP Elitebooks G3–G4; honestly, worked great on any HP I’ve used. Might’ve worked on the Dells I’d used but they had other problems and didn’t last very long so I don’t remember.
But I’ve largely used older laptops so I’m not sure if the hardware, specifically, may have anything to do with it.
I’ve been using it pretty consistently for years, I achieve uptimes upwards of 60 days like this. The downside is that it takes kinda long to enter that state and there’s a chance that it fails to enter it (though it doesn’t crash, just goes to the screenlock), especially on my laptop - it refuses to go into hibernation unless I kill most webbrowser windows, especially stuff like YouTube.
And you do need a pretty large swap space; with those super long uptimes, even swap size = ram size isn’t always enough, because sometimes the swap space is actually used as swap and not just as hibernation image storage.
Twice your RAM is the old adage.
Really, hibernate as well? On my linux desktop and laptops, hibernate completely cuts the power. It’s definitely possible that this works differently for a handheld device, though, and I don’t think I even tried using hibernate on an ARM device.
Worth noting that this is also an ongoing issue with windows. Only apple has actually solved this, and they do so by owning the whole stack. Each apple product has a specific OS, CPU, and motherboard that were all specifically designed with the end-product user-experience in mind.
But for PCs, the OS, CPU, and motherboard are all designed and built by different companies, each only designed to be generically compatible with the other components. None of them are designed for a specific end-product, so features that require all of the components to play perfectly together for a specific end-user experience (like sleep state) often end up not quite aligning.
None of this helps you, but I think it’s worth understanding why the problem exists and why it may just always exist. The best bet is that companies like System76 or Valve solve sleep states for specific linux-based products, and then the rest of us maybe hopefully see some benefit from that.
But IMO this is just a trade-off. It’s like a pick 2 situation between Customization, Stability, and Privacy (where a reliabile sleep state is Stability). You can have stability and customization, but you’ll probably pay a lot, and the company who sold it will want telemetry data to improve the experience for others. You can have stability and privacy, but the product will be very locked down to a specific use case to ensure a stable experience.
i use a kaby lake (7th gen intel i5) laptop, and sleep works well on all linux, freebsd, windows. i’m using s3 sleep, are you on a newer machine that only supports s0ix?
One laptop I have is from 2020 and has S3 sleep. Linux even reports it has S3 sleep, but it loses 20% every day when sleeping. It’s nuts.
No idea if this applies to a lot of laptops, but on my HP with an i5-8350U every Linux distro I’ve tried seems to come configured using s2idle instead of deep sleep, and battery will drain very quickly even in ‘sleep’ mode.
If running
cat /sys/power/mem_sleepreturns “[s2idle] deep” then you can addmem_sleep_default=deepto your kernel args and it will actually go to sleep properly.On Fedora this was
sudo grubby --update-kernel=ALL --args="mem_sleep_default=deep"but it varies by distro.Why it seems like every distro I’ve used has this set incorrectly I do not know, it’s baffling.
Interesting. “s2Idle” sounds like it’s idling and wasting cycles when it’s supposed to be sleeping. I’ll try those commands.
Also perplexing to me that idle is chosen as a default.
Some modern laptops only have s2idle which is garbage. I had to re-enabling hibernate on mine and just use that instead of sleep now.
SWAP avenger here. And they said SWAP partitions were old hat… Pah!
I have an Acer Swift 3:2 running Manjaro with a swap partition encrypted with LUKS2. I recently got a new laptop so poor old Swifty been languishing in a messenger bag.
The important distinction here being that my lid is tied to hibernate, not sleep, because fuck sleep mode… why do I want my laptop in “low power mode”? So I can charge it as soon as I open it? No thanks!
Three months pass. Crap can’t seem to connect to my VNC over SSH, hmm, what to do… I wonder if my Acer can connect?
Pull old Swifty out of the bag, open it up, enter decryption key, it’s on in moments, 95% battery.
Skill issue? (I’m joking, or am I?) 🐸
Hibernate is suspend to disk, power off. There is almost zero power consumption. You’ll lose more just to thermodynamics.
Exactly, that’s why I choose it on all of my mobile systems. It also survives power outages which is important in storm-prone geographies.
This, Bluetooth, WiFi, screen scaling. 2026 and Linux nuts still tell people it’ll just work 🤣
For common hardware, yeah it does. With my new lenovo work laptop it was just that - worked fine out of the box. Even dock and multiple displays…
Exotic hardware always needs tinkering, Windows is no different there in my experience.
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I’ve never once actually had windows break on an update. Nix otoh is why immutable nix exist 🤣
You can just run everything in containers so you’ll never ever have to break your machine running Pacman 🤣
Super easy, super reliable.
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And how much of the world is run on Linux desktop specifically?
You want to compare a desktop environment to a fucking webserver that probably doesn’t even have a gpu or have any concept of Wayland? 🤣Jesus Christ gtfo with that shit. Actually, that’s hilarious. What a dumb fucking statement.
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